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 Viestin otsikko: kommenttia, gurut :)
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 11:59:30 
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/438769?src=search

ja hyvää lauantain jatkoa :)


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:05:09 
Ei pääse lukemaan..voitko copypasteta...


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:07:40 
hoblaa, kyllä mä pääsen tuosta linkistä :shock:

on aika pitkä juttu copypeistattavaksi...


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:08:34 
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/438769
onnistuuko näin?


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:13:45 
Ei. No mikä sen jutun pointti oli..? :o


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:22:30 
Tuossa abstrakti, ei kauhean seksikäs ja lukuystävällinen layout tosin, sorge

The Effect of High-, Moderate-, and Low-Fat Diets on Weight Loss and Cardiovascular Disease Risk Factors


from Preventive Cardiology
Posted 08/13/2002
Richard M. Fleming, MD


Over 60% of Americans are overweight and a number of popular diets have been advocated, often without evidence, to alleviate this public health hazard. This study was designed to investigate the effects of several diets on weight loss, serum lipids, and other cardiovascular disease risk factors. One hundred men and women followed one of four dietary programs for 1 year: a moderate-fat (MF) program without calorie restriction (28 patients); a low-fat (LF) diet (phase I) (16 patients); a MF, calorie-controlled (phase II) diet (38 patients); and a high-fat (HF) diet (38 subjects). Weight, total cholesterol (TC), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), triglycerides (TG), homocysteine (Ho), and lipoprotein(a) [Lp(a)], were measured every 4th month. The TC/HDL-C ratio was calculated and fibrinogen levels were measured at baseline and after one year. The MF diet resulted in a 2.6% (NS) decrease in weight compared with 18.4% (p=0.045) decrease in patients on phase I, 12.6% (p=0.0085) decrease in patients on phase II, and 13.7% (p=0.025) decrease in those on the HF diet. TC was reduced by 5% (NS) in the MF group, 39.1% (p=0.0005) in the phase I group, and 30.4% (p=0.0001) in the phase II group. HF group had a 4.3% (NS) increase in TC. LDL-C was reduced by 6.1% (NS) on MF, 52.0% (p=0.0001) on phase I , and 38.8% (p=0.0001) on phase II. Patients on HF had a 6.0% (NS) increase in LDL-C. There were nonsignificant reductions in HDL-C in those on MF (-1.5%) and HF (-5.8%). Patients on phase I showed an increase in HDL-C of 9.0% (NS), while those on phase II diet had a 3.6% increase (NS) in HDL-C. TC/HDL-C increased (9.8%) only in patients following the high-fat diets (NS). Patients on MF had a 5.3% (NS) reduction in TC/HDL-C, while those on LF had significant reductions on the phase I (-45.8%; p=0.0001) diet and phase II diet (-34.7%; p=0.0001). TG levels increased on both the MF (1.0%) and HF (5.5%) diets, although neither was statistically significant. People following the phase I and II diets showed reductions of 37.3% and 36.9%, respectively. Ho levels increased by 9.7% when people followed the MF diet and by 12.4% when they followed the HF diet. Patients following the phase I and phase II diets showed reductions of 13.6% and 14.6%, respectively. Only those following phase II diets showed a tendency toward significant improvement (p=0.061). Lp(a) levels increased by 4.7% following the MF (NS) diet and by 31.0% (NS) on the HF diet. Patients following phase I showed a 7.4% (NS) reduction and a 10.8% reduction (NS) following phase II. Fibrinogen levels increased only in individuals following HF diets (11.9%), while patients following MF (-0.6%), phase I (-11.0%), and phase II (-6.3%) diets showed nonsignificant reductions in fibrinogen. Patients on MF demonstrated nonsignificant reductions in weight, LDL-C, TC, HDL-C, TC/HDL-C ratios, and fibrinogen and nonsignificant increases in TGs, Lp(a), and homocysteine. There was significant weight loss in patients on phase I and II and HF diets after 1 year. Reductions in TC, LDL-C, TGs, and TC/HDL ratios were significant only in patients either following a LF diet or a MF, calorically reduced diet. Only patients following HF diets showed a worsening of each cardiovascular disease risk factor (LDL-C, TG, TC, HDL-C, TC/HDL ratio, Ho, Lp(a), and fibrinogen), despite achieving statistically significant weight loss.


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:24:36 
tässä vielä noi ruokavaliot


Dietary Regimens
High-Fat (HF) Diet. This diet is defined as one in which patients consume 55%-65% of their daily caloric intake in the form of fat calories. Less than 100 g of carbohydrates (RCHO) were consumed daily and protein intake constituted 25%-30% of the total caloric intake. Patients ate until satiated.

Moderate-Fat (MF) Diet. Patients following this dietary program consumed 20%-30% of their calories in the form of fat. Approximately 60% of their calories were from carbohydrate sources and the remaining calories were derived from protein. Patients consumed 10-12 calories per pound per day on this diet.

MF, Calorie-Controlled (Phase II) Diet. Patients following this program were asked to consume 350-500 fewer kilocalories per day than required[15,20] to maintain body weight. This was determined by multiplying their current weight in pounds by 10 kcal/lb to determine the required kcal intake per day; 350-500 was subtracted from this figure to determine the desired daily intake of calories. Of these calories, 15% were protein and 70% were carbohydrate, with an emphasis on complex carbohydrates vs. simple sugars. The remaining 15% of the calories could be consumed as fat in a 2:1 ratio of nonsaturated (polyunsaturated and monosaturated) to saturated fat, with no more than 5 g of saturated fat intake per day.

Low-Fat (LF) (Phase I) Diet. The LF diet consisted of fruits, vegetables, a limited amount of grain/ cereals for breakfast and a multiple vitamin that included 100% of the US Department of Agriculture recommended daily intake of vitamins and minerals. Patients ate until satiated. Of the caloric intake, 10% was fat, 15% was protein, and 75% was carbohydrate, with an emphasis on complex vs. simple carbohydrates as shown in Table I.


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:32:23 
Pudmedistä löytyy kymmeniä tutkimuksia joissa lowcarb vain parantaa kolesteroliarvoja. Tämä oli taas yhden ihmisen MIELIPIDE. Ja kuten Science-lehden toimittaja Gary Taubes sanoi, Flemingiin ei voi luottaa.


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:33:42 
Tuota "tutkimusta" ei löydy PUBMED-tietokannasta :D


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:37:01 
"Finally, Squires reports my skepticism of research by Dr. Richard Fleming without giving the context. As I explained at length to Squires, clinical trials are expensive, difficult and time-consuming. Even small dietary trials can easily cost several hundred thousand dollars and require entire research teams. The DPP estimated a cost of $1,075 just to recruit each participant.

Fleming reports on a one-year trial of 100 participants and four diets with extensive follow-up. His paper, however, has no co-authors; it acknowledges no source of funding, nor any nurses, dietitians or technicians who might have helped. Fleming identifies himself as Medical Director of Preventive Cardiology, the Camelot Foundation at the Fleming Heart & Health Institute, but if his Web site or receptionist are any indication, he is the sole member of each of those.

As for the issue of peer-review, Fleming states that his patients "were randomly assigned to one of the four dietary regimens based upon dietary preferences." This protocol is pivotal to interpretation of the findings, yet oxymoronic: If patients were assigned to diets based on their dietary preferences, then they weren't randomly assigned. If they were randomly assigned, then their preferences must be irrelevant. The two methods are incompatible. If this paper was peer-reviewed, it was done poorly. If this constitutes high-quality research in this field, then I suggest even more skepticism is necessary.

Gary Taubes
Venice, Calif.
© 2002 The Washington Post Company"


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:38:34 
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aktiivikarppi
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Liittynyt: 2004-05-19 20:09:11
Viestit: 802
Naurettavaa, koko abstrakti oli täynnä (NS):ää, eli nonsignificant, eli eihän tuosta voinut päätellä mitään. :)


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:40:44 
Fleming on huijari:

"What about Richard Fleming, the Omaha, Nebraska cardiologist who obtained Atkins' death report under such highly dubious circumstances? Fleming is an outspoken critic of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets, and just happens to be the author of the only published study to have ever found greater weight loss in individuals randomized to follow a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet than individuals following a low carbohydrate diet.

If legitimate, Fleming's study is indeed a landmark, for every other published randomized clinical trial has found either greater weight loss among those assigned to follow low carbohydrate diets, or statistically insignificant differences (the non-significant difference, by the way, invariably favoring the low carbohydrate dieters). In addition to being the only trial in which high-carbohydrate dieters reportedly lost more weight than low carbohydrate dieters, Fleming's paper reported some truly unique blood-test findings. While Fleming's high-carbohydrate dieters recorded marked triglyceride reductions, the low-carbohydrate dieters experienced an initial modest decrease, which then reversed itself and ended up slightly higher than baseline levels by the end of the study. If these results are genuine, then Fleming's study is again a milestone in nutrition research history, as every other relevant study has found low-carbohydrate diets to produce either similar or greater reductions in blood triglycerides than calorie-restricted high-carbohydrate diets.

A close look at Fleming's paper, which was published in a lesser-known journal called Preventive Cardiology, suggests that it may be more than mere co-incidence that the only non-supportive low carbohydrate weight-loss study comes from someone who just happens to be an avid critic of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets.

Fleming claims that one hundred men and women were placed on one of four diets (a low carbohydrate diet, one of two low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets, or a "high-fat" diet) then followed for one year. This would make Fleming's trial one of the largest and longest-running - and hence, most expensive - high- versus low-carbohydrate diet trials ever conducted. As any clinical investigator will tell you, conducting randomized intervention trials is a costly, difficult, and time-consuming task. Even small trials can easily cost hundreds of thousand dollars; as a recent example, recruitment for the Diabetes Prevention Program, a randomized, controlled trial designed to test whether diet and exercise or medication can prevent or delay the onset of type 2 diabetes in susceptible individuals, was estimated to cost $1,075 for each participant. This figure was purely for recruitment, and did not include staff costs! In addition to enlistment, clinical trials employing dietary interventions and regular blood testing require substantial manpower in the form of investigators, nurses, dietitians, and technicians.

Despite the significant number of participants and the extended duration of Fleming's trial, his paper does not list a single source of funding, even though funding acknowledgement is standard procedure in any respected, peer-reviewed journal article. The Preventive Cardiology paper also lists no co-authors, nurses, dietitians, or technicians who may have assisted in the trial which, again, is par for the course in published papers. Fleming identifies himself as the "Medical Director of Preventive Cardiology, The Camelot Foundation at The Fleming Heart & Health Institute", but a visit to his web site indicates that this Institute has one lone member - Fleming! How did Fleming fund such an expensive undertaking? And how did he manage to conduct such a time-consuming project with so little, if any, assistance? Your guess is as good as mine...

Science reporter Gary Taubes has little doubt as to the validity of the Omaha cardiologist's findings; "Frankly, I think Fleming made it [the data] up," he told a Washington Post reporter (an accusation hotly denied, of course, by Fleming). In addition to the aforementioned anomalies, Fleming wrote that the participants "were randomly assigned to one of the four dietary regimens based upon dietary preferences." Such a description is a contradiction in terms if ever there was one. As Taubes pointed out; "If patients were assigned to diets based on their dietary preferences, then they weren't randomly assigned. If they were randomly assigned, then their preferences must be irrelevant. The two methods are incompatible. If this paper was peer-reviewed, it was done poorly. If this constitutes high-quality research in this field, then I suggest even more skepticism is necessary."

Call me a hopeless skeptic, but any information originating from the likes of the PCRM or Richard Fleming should be met with extreme caution."


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 12:49:02 
:lol:

Tämähän meni juuri niin kuin ajattelinkin...

Musta tuossa oli mielenkiintoista se, että virallinen 30% energiaa rasvasta-dieetti ilman kalorirajoitusta pärjäsi surkeasti.

Mutta parantumattomana kyynikkokarppina pakko kysyä, että olisiko kaikki potaskaa, jos high-fat-dieetti olisi saanut mairittelevampia tuloksia?

se siitä, nyt reaalielämän pariin...


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 Viestin otsikko: Potaskaa
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 14:05:31 
Appelsiini vai mikä lie oletkaan...mistähän tuo Fleming on saanut rahat tähän feikkitutkimukseen, jossa oli tutkittu kasa ihmisiä mutta mukana ei ole ketään muita kuin Fleming. Esim. sairaanhoitajia tai lääkäreitä ei ole muita osallistunut tähän "tutkimukseen" :lol:


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 Viestin otsikko:
ViestiLähetetty: 2004-10-02 14:22:04 
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aktiivikarppi
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Liittynyt: 2004-06-29 11:39:27
Viestit: 15013
High fat dieetistä ei muuten sanottu, mitä rasvaa söivät. Uskon, että koko tutkimus on feikki, mutta jos esim transrasvoja HF dieettiläiset syö pelkästään niin varmaan huonontaa arvoja.

_________________
"Remember, eating fat is not what makes you fat, it’s the inability to burn fat that makes you fat." Rosedale
"I will never be hungry again"


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